Negotiating

Navigating the Unknown Episode 17 – Where are we right now and what do we need to do? Is now live on YouTube! This week we speak to Producer Joy Asbury and Producer Michael Horta about where our industry is headed now. 

Guests: 

Joy Asbury – Producer, joy Asbury Production https://joyasbury.com/

Michael Horta – Producer, MJ68 Productions http://www.mj68.com/

Navigating the Unknown is a Q&A series in collaboration with APA-LA where we speak to different members of the photo community about all aspects of the commercial photography business. https://la.apanational.org/

With Co-Host: Photographer Hugh Kretschmer https://www.hughkretschmer.net/

Q:

I’d love to know your good ideas on how overages are handled and if and when they occur? Layout in bid ahead of time so everyone is clear? How spelled out should/can this be without seeming too nickel/dimey?

A:

Overages can be simple if your estimate states what the bid includes. I would not worry about sounding too “nickel/dimey,” but too much unneeded info only prevents the needed info from being read. Less is more if we want to be heard. State on the estimate form job description and listed in your email when sending in the estimate what is included and what is not included. Things like retouching, shoot hours, variations, stylists, which props, how many locations, etc., should all be stated, so it’s easy to get overages approved before they occur. Remember, “before they occur” is extremely important as clients need to be a part of the process before granting a financial overage approval.

Q:

How do you navigate pricing for unlimited use for images? I’ve had so many requests this year for buy-outs.

A:

Unlimited is the popular usage term similar to clients requesting to own the image’s copyright. They often don’t really need unlimited freedom such as broadcast, OOH billboards, etc. First, find out what they really need it for. You can show them two options – exactly what they need it for and what unlimited would cost. I like how on the Estimates episode of Navigating the Unknown we learned that the standard range for unlimited use is normally between $8k – $15k per day. That gives a sense of where you can begin.

Q:

So often art directors push for more images on the shoot day even after the final number of shots has been agreed upon and approved. It’s tough to navigate on set. They usually say something like, “we’d love to get a few options on this shot,” or “what if we do this?” How do we be stern (no pun intended) with these on-set requests with discussing money during the middle of a shoot?

A:

I tell every photographer I rep or temp rep to blame me. For example- “I’d love to do this for you, but Andrea had me agree that you’ll have to talk to her first.” If you aren’t working with a rep then you can say, “As much as I’d love to, it’s my self-producing policy to not surprise you or me later with costs and timing issues so I’ll get back to you in a few minutes with any cost or scheduling changes to make those happen.”

Q:

I find that when working as a freelancer I often get ghosted by clients. We will have approved rates and discussed dates and then they go cold. It seems so unprofessional and I’m surprised by how often it happens. What is the best way to deal with this?

A:

Ya I hear you. This procedure is they reach out to about 10 photographers and then their creative choose 3 of them to bid the job. It can be misleading as it isn’t presented as an initial round up of available photographers. I email them back after not hearing anything for a few days, asking if we should keep the hold. That is when I get a response because they don’t really want us losing other jobs and holding the dates.

Q:

How do I transfer the bidding process to a temp rep when I’m used to receiving requests and managing client relationships myself? Would a temp rep be beneficial? Could this damage my relationships?

A:

A temp rep situation is just that, temporary and flexible. I would jump in and help with negotiation or overseeing your estimate to make sure you are protected on your terms, upon your unique circumstances. Maybe you just need a negotiator or back-end support to oversee your estimate or a communicator to help protect you by setting up the job terms clearly. Our goal is always the same- let’s get you the job and the highest budget!

Q:

I’ve heard from several people in the business that you don’t need representation unless you are too busy to book and manage the business yourself. How true is this?

A:

Most photographers would do better having a rep’s overall support. Some types of photographers may do well on their own if they handle their own social media marketing. If you have the skills that a full-time rep would bring to your business, then you can always do it on your own, but if you aren’t the best negotiator then the bottom-line question is, would a rep protect and negotiate higher fees for you?

Q:

I’ve thought of three quarantine safe workflows: 

1. Product delivered, sanitized, and shot at home studio space, natural (limited makeup and wardrobe)
2. Editorial at a distance (telephoto heavy)
3. Webcam Fashion

Who is looking for these workarounds right now?

A:

Hey any ideas like this can work in today’s situation so I’d say all clients are looking for these types of options. It’s the time to step up and help our clients figure out how to create content. Today = creative problem solving. Right now the only wrong answer I can think of is being too close in proximity, other than that everyone is open to new ideas.

Q:

I’m in the middle of negotiating a contract for a job I really want. The contract gives me no right to use the images for self-promotion, and effectively states that I could be sued for doing so. 

Should I take the money and work on building the relationship, or should I fight for my rights at the risk of losing the gig?

A:

I would talk to your contact at the company, and gauge their flexibility. Explain why you would need to show this work in order to get more work. 

Hopefully they’ll be receptive to your concerns + work with you on tners that are fair to all parties. At least try your best to get what is fair. 

Our industry also benefits when we stand together on issues like this. I understand why you wouldn’t want to walk away from the job because of this, but asking for what you want, in a respectful way, shouldn’t lose you the job.

Bidding a project correctly is one of the most crucial parts of getting awarded a job. The way you bid CAN ultimately get you in or lose the job. As much as every bid depends on the situation, there are also some standards and rules that you can educate yourself about and utilize to your benefit. 

Here are 5 tips to help you become an even more successful bidder!

Tip #1: Creative Fees + Usage

Always have a signed estimate that clearly describes what the bid is based on and what the licensed usage is. Be sure all costs are agreed on before beginning the job. 

It is our responsibility to clearly spell out what our numbers cover and don’t cover. I used the top of the estimate for this, and call it “description.”

Always define the amount of shots and what they are. Remember to specify that the bid does not include variations, added shots, or different angles. Mostly, this section is how you protect yourself. 

A great line I like to use after the usage is, “image rights granted with full payment.”

Make sure overtime is clear on your estimate – that the shoot day is based on the standard 10 hour day, anything over that will incur an overtime rate of time-and-a-half for crew. 

If you feel like you would do better if you had help with your bid, then hire the right person – like a rep, producer, or consultant. It could be well worth that commission fee if getting help will in the end leave you with a much larger rate than you would have gotten on your own. 

Tip #2: Negotiating

Clients can’t give you numbers, you have to throw numbers out there for them to bring you up or down. 

Always start with a higher amount and hope they say you are too high. You don’t want to be too low. 

Use questions about the details of the job to get a sense of each client. REALLY LISTEN. I have found that people want to tell us a lot more inside information than we give them the time or opportunity to reveal. 

Tip #3: Advances + Expenses

ALWAYS GET A 50% ADVANCE FOR A PHOTOSHOOT. 

To get this invoice in, you need to have their purchase order (PO) # on your invoice or at least a signed estimate. As soon as that happens, you can officially begin to start spending money. 

BE CAREFUL THOUGH, there are a lot of scams out there. If this is not for a major advertising agency or client you know, wait until you have been wired the advance invoice and it CLEARS at the bank before you spend ANY money for a job. 

If any changes occur before or during the shoot, you need to request an “overage” (send in an overage estimate) and when that is approved you can spend more $. 

Do not go over this total which you’ve been approved for, or you will not be able to charge for it. 

Tip #4: Payment

Invoicing for an advertising job after it is completed will often require backup of all receipts. 

This should be done correctly and I’d recommend getting a producer’s help and/or a bookkeeper who knows the business. 

Expect to be paid 30-60 days after the client receives your final invoice. 

Tip #5: CREATIVITY

(in all ways + places even *bidding*)

Think outside the box. 

Just like a good producer responds with options in a tough scenario, be your own innovative producer. 

Getting creative seems to be my response to all that is happening in our business right now. The entire industry is changing, so go with the flow of it and find your way. 

Use your experience wisely, but don’t let what you’ve done in the past limit or define you. Step outside your own thinking sometimes. Think young.