Bidding Process

Navigating the Unknown Episode 11 is now live on YouTube! This week we speak to Art/Content Producer Kay Gautraud, and Producer Michael Klein about how to navigate estimates for a project in today’s climate. 

Guests:

Kay Gautraud – Art/Content Producer https://www.kaygautraud.com/#/

Michael Klein – Producer, Circadian Pictures https://circadianpictures.com/

Navigating the Unknown is a Q&A series in collaboration with APA-LA where we speak to different members of the photo community about all aspects of the commercial photography business. https://la.apanational.org/

With Co-Host: Photographer Hugh Kretschmer https://www.hughkretschmer.net/

We are all curious about ESTIMATES.
My top 5 tips for every estimate:

1. Start it off with the amount of final images you have agreed on. 
2. No variations included. 
3. This bid is based on information provided, any changes may incur overages. 
4. 10-hour shoot day. 
5. No overtime is included.

What do we need to include to help a photographer secure a job based on the estimate? Today, I’m going to share my top five points for creating an effective estimate:

1. Job Description: Always include the number of shots at the top of the estimate. This is important because clients might want to add shots later, so clearly state how many shots are included and emphasize that there are no variations.
2. Information and Overages: Add a line stating, “This bid is based on information provided; any changes may incur overages.” This protects you if changes are made to the scope of work.
3. Hours: Specify the number of hours the shoot is based on. This helps set clear expectations.
4. Overtime: Indicate if there is no overtime included in your estimate. Mention this in the email as well so clients know up front if additional hours will incur extra charges. Typically, estimates are based on 10 hours.
5. Usage Rights: Note that usage rights are granted with full payment. Usage becomes legally theirs only once payment is received, so make this clear.

These are my top five points, plus one extra on usage rights. See you next week for the “Navigating the Unknown” webinar, where we’ll discuss this further.

Q:

When a job is awarded to another photographer, how likely is it to get feedback from the client and to find out who the photographer they chose is?

A:

When another photographer gets the job, it’s really difficult to get the info of who they are or who else bid on the job. I am not sure why it’s such a big secret. I do my damndest to always find out who got it to help educate us, but it is a challenge that is hard to make happen. We get one opportunity to ask for this info so I wait a week or so when the information is not so top secret.

*WARNING*

When you are asked to revise a specific cost on your submitted estimate, you can only change that cost. Do not be tempted to change other costs and assume they will read through it all again. You can get your client in trouble and it’s a sneaky move.

There’s one part of bidding we’ve noticed that you should be very careful about. When we’re asked to revise a bid, we need to only revise that specific line item that they’ve requested to change. It’s very tempting to change other line items because we might hear from their tone that our budget could have been higher or perhaps we’re a little low on craft services and should have put in more for meals. We cannot make those changes, because once we submit the bid, we have to assume when we give it back, they’re not going to read over the whole bid again. It can be really sneaky, even if we didn’t mean it in that way and we can get someone in trouble. Only change the revision that they asked for.

Q:

If a client asks you to be tested on your own before a shoot, can you charge a fee for the time? Not everyone lives in cities where testing is really easy to come by, and lines can be long. (Example: I am in Vermont right now for a month and have to drive an hour to get a test for a shoot in NY Tuesday), I know we are all just excited to get jobs at the moment, and I don’t want to rub anyone the wrong way. Of course if there is a fee they should pay, but what about for time? Like a mini travel day and mileage? I’m not stressing this type of fee, but just figured it might be something a lot of us hopefully start dealing with when going back to work so could be good to see how people respond. 

A:

Right now getting tested before a job is a standard requirement. If you charge extra for it because of your location, this may turn into a detail about you that can hurt you in the future. If you are getting jobs out of NY I would not suggest making this more of an “issue” that the client has to pay for. You can always add a little more to your shoot or prep fees if you think there is room to do so, without calling it out as a Covid test fee. A side not to this is that I am noticing photographers paying their crew to get tested. Sounds like a fair idea to me.

When we hear licensing terms like “copyright” and buyout,” they don’t always know what they are saying. I usually assume they don’t mean it unless they are large companies who are known to require ownership of a usage.

Recently we were emailed by someone who said they wanted to buy the copyright. We knew this was client direct because ad agencies know usage terms. Nowadays we’re getting requests from clients directly and production companies don’t really know what usage is. We spoke on the phone and after some explanation about usage we discovered what they needed it for. It turned out they needed it for social media, which is way different. It takes asking people directly on the phone, what they really need it for, so you don’t have to charge that much or get so intimidated by it to find out what they want to use it for.

Q:

How do I transfer the bidding process to a temp rep when I’m used to receiving requests and managing client relationships myself? Would a temp rep be beneficial? Could this damage my relationships?

A:

A temp rep situation is just that, temporary and flexible. I would jump in and help with negotiation or overseeing your estimate to make sure you are protected on your terms, upon your unique circumstances. Maybe you just need a negotiator or back-end support to oversee your estimate or a communicator to help protect you by setting up the job terms clearly. Our goal is always the same- let’s get you the job and the highest budget!

When you begin pricing out the requested optional usage prices on your estimate, pad them with the expectation that the client will respond by minimizing with less usage options and you will have to present cheaper rates.

Often on jobs, estimates, or bids, we’re asked about renewal or reuse terms. They might inquire about rates for one year, two years, or additional uses like print advertising. They may also ask about extending usage beyond the initial period—such as for an extra year or five years.

You should be prepared to include some flexibility in your pricing. Quote a bit higher than what you expect they’ll accept, knowing they might come back and request adjustments, such as a shorter term or reduced scope. This way, you’ll have room to negotiate and adjust the prices as needed.

Does that make sense? The idea is to leave some room in your bid so you can accommodate their requests for reductions and still meet their needs.

Q:

What are your thoughts on bidding on a big job for a client when your portfolio does not reflect the same exact category of work?

A:

It’s not black or white because I’ve had experiences where a photographer’s style and the client’s confidence in that style landed them the job. In that instance, it was Toby Pederson booking an Apple campaign that included people in the images, even though he had no people in his portfolio. Then there are instances when I can sense the photographer’s bid is in 3rd place because their work isn’t exactly reflective of the job’s requirements. I would advise you to get in the mix. Your work will be on their radar and use it as an opportunity to show what you can do.

Q:

Should I try to get a rep so I can start bidding on bigger jobs, or do I need the bigger jobs before I find a rep?

A:

Typically, you need to be bidding on jobs and have existing relationships in order for a rep to do their job. A rep can use their own relationships to get your work in front of new eyes, but your portfolio is where your career lives and dies. If you’re not bidding on jobs yet, that means your portfolio isn’t ready. Work on your portfolio.