Bidding Process

Q:

How do you charge differently in one case where a client comes to your with a project that is 90% fleshed out and you fill in the remaining 10% vs. a client that comes with a project that is 10% fleshed out and you come up with the other 90%… on a sliding scale you become art director and photographer… is that something that gets accounted for in the final bid?

A:

In my experience, the clients who don’t hire an art director or designer are trying to save money. They have lower budgets, so they want the photographer to come up with the branded shot list. I suggest staying clear of these situations because you are doing someone else’s job without getting paid for it. I’ve never seen these types of clients agree to pay more for art directing, but they really should. The first question I always ask is, “what is your shot list?”

Guest Post: Executive Producer, Robin Daily

“When we reach out to an artist to bid on a project, it’s the start of a relationship of sorts. We’ve been admiring their work and would like to initiate a conversation. 

The Creative Call is the “first date”.
The Treatment is the second one. 

The treatment tells us whether the artist heard us, but equally as important, how it resonates with them, now that they’ve heard our thoughts and vision for the project. It’s feedback to that “first date”. It should never be just a regurgitation of what we said. It should be how they would take our starting point and build on it.”

Treatments are important. It can get you the job. We just lost a job because we didn’t do a treatment. I asked the client why? The winning photographer was chosen because their treatment was so fabulous and it reconfirmed what they heard on the creative call. They need to know you’re as professional as you sound. Because you might sound professional on the phone but they need to know you are the person they heard on that call.

My sixth-grade art teacher Ms Johnson said, “if someone copies your idea, that means you had a really good idea.”

The same goes for treatments.

Don’t hold back because the only way your idea won’t be used by others is if you never get the job.

There is a lot of apprehension from putting your secret ideas into your treatments because you may think the client may steal it and use it with someone else. That’s really not how it works. A client is going to hire a photographer based on their treatment and of other things. You might inspire them. But even if you share your idea and then they use that idea on another shoot with another photographer, what are we going to do? We can’t stop them. You have to give all of yourself to the treatment: every idea you have, the locations, the whole production, the schedule, and how you would make it all happen. If you don’t share all of your ideas you’re not really showing who you are and you probably won’t get the job.

When a client handles production expenses and asks for your day-rate estimate, be careful as they often assume that will include other costs such as your crew, camera gear, and retouching. Spelling that out on your estimate is not enough. Before the job happens, ask how they are handling the specific production costs that pertain to you. 

Something often happens with estimates, especially when it’s from client direct. They are handling the production expenses. They ask us for a bid or an estimate just for our fees but it’s often not just our fees. They think other things are inclusive with fees. When fees are really your usage and your time, your creative fee, your day rate. Even after you think they understand because you’ve made it very clear, do it again. Make sure before the job happens that they are crystal clear if more retouching is needed or if overtime happens it’s going to be this much. Ask them how they are handling the crew, how they want to handle your equipment. Stuff like that. Assume they don’t know because you have to protect yourself even if you think you already did in the estimate.

Q:

I’d love to know your good ideas on how overages are handled and if and when they occur? Layout in bid ahead of time so everyone is clear? How spelled out should/can this be without seeming too nickel/dimey?

A:

Overages can be simple if your estimate states what the bid includes. I would not worry about sounding too “nickel/dimey,” but too much unneeded info only prevents the needed info from being read. Less is more if we want to be heard. State on the estimate form job description and listed in your email when sending in the estimate what is included and what is not included. Things like retouching, shoot hours, variations, stylists, which props, how many locations, etc., should all be stated, so it’s easy to get overages approved before they occur. Remember, “before they occur” is extremely important as clients need to be a part of the process before granting a financial overage approval.

Q:

Is it expected that I deliver a treatment when an ad agency requests a bid?

A:

Yes, treatments are the norm now and I definitely recommend sending them in on every bid. Why not? Other than them taking a lot of time, they really sell the photographer and can help you get that job or future jobs with that client. Take it as one opportunity you should not pass up even when they don’t ask for a treatment. 

One tip: Work with a designer to get your treatment template looking like your A+ style!

Overtime is tricky because even if you think the client will be expecting it, don’t take any chances. They hired you as the director, controlling the day, offering strategic steps to look out for their best interest. Bring it up before it’s too late.

We have to talk about overtime. If you’re on a job and you see yourself heading towards overtime, talk with the client. Check in with yourself at lunch time, or early in the day. Ask yourself, “Where are we?” Are you falling beyond or you’re not getting all the shots done in the 10 hours. Overtime was probably already discussed with the client in an email and it’s on your contract or even talked about on the phone, but don’t count on that. Talk to them or have your producer talk for you or your rep. The client has to know in advance because they might not have the budget and it’s your responsibility. Even if they’re trying to add shots and you’ve said ok. Also, the amount of overtime has to be approved, such as how many hours of overtime and for how many people. You don’t want any surprises and you never want to hand it to your client and say, “Surprise!” You have to protect yourself.

Q:

I wonder if you have any insight on “collaboration.” I reach out to brands to collaborate and they perceive that I want to create content with them for free. Maybe my approach needs to be retooled or the word “collaboration” means “free.” Any help would be appreciated.

A:

“Collaboration” has become synonymous with “free” in the Instagram age, so utilizing an alternative to that word will probably be a good start. If you do reach out to agencies and clients, know that they are not used to having ideas given to them, so your collaboration could come more in a discussion. I’d suggest DM’ing the creative director or art director or designer to start sharing your passion for your idea. If you have good ideas, I’m sure they want to hear them. Make it a discussion vs a collaboration. Request a Zoom chat once you have a conversation on DM started.

Q:

What questions should be asked when figuring out costs for projects?

A:

This could be the most important part of estimating a job. Get the info you need so you understand what they are looking for, otherwise you risk not being covered ($) for something they expected you to cover. The other risk is you will be either too high or too low and not get the job. Ask for their budget (I doubt you will get the answer), get the shot-list, a layout or mood-board creative deck, what is the usage they want to license, and are they handling any of the production. After you see their deck info- ask the specifics about the day count, remote or on set, location, talent, props, backgrounds, surfaces, live casting or not, and any part of the production they are handling. You then have a sense of your approach and their needs to get your estimate started.

Navigating the Unknown Episode 11 is now live on YouTube! This week we speak to Art/Content Producer Kay Gautraud, and Producer Michael Klein about how to navigate estimates for a project in today’s climate. 

Guests:

Kay Gautraud – Art/Content Producer https://www.kaygautraud.com/#/

Michael Klein – Producer, Circadian Pictures https://circadianpictures.com/

Navigating the Unknown is a Q&A series in collaboration with APA-LA where we speak to different members of the photo community about all aspects of the commercial photography business. https://la.apanational.org/

With Co-Host: Photographer Hugh Kretschmer https://www.hughkretschmer.net/